I shot my first bull elk in Montanas Pioneer Mountains on a snowy Thanksgiving in 1972. It never got up. Lyman lists 47 different moulds that were available at one time or another, ranging in bullet weight from 70 to 282 grains. Mag. Head to Head: .358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum | An Official Make no mistake, the .30-06 is a powerful cartridge, but it doesnt beat you to death and can be built in the seven- to eight-pound range. Fusion Ammo has a 200-grain with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. Essentially a .338 Magnum with a bigger mouth, the .358 Norma can push 250-grain bullets faster. Federal loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2600 f.p.s. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. Any of these will handle just about any big game one might hunt with a .358 Norma, where you want to employ its ample knockdown power. With the 250-grain bullet, it's better than the .30-06 on heavy game at close ranges. As an experiment, I shot the nilgai five or six more times with different bullets, then hauled the carcass back to the cleaning station intact and carried out a necropsy. Thinking of a medium bore with a bit of thump.9.3 x 62 holds some exotic mystique for me being its use on African large game but I am thinking realistically .366 cant be that much of an advantage over .358 can it? Not only that, many different bullet moulds were made for casting .358 bullets in some of the most fanciful shapes. 35 Whelen vs 9.3x62 | Page 4 | AfricaHunting.com offered the performance level of the .358 Win. I will go with the 35 Whelen BUT 9.3x62 will be cool due that you already have a 350 Rem mag, if you're opening the bolt face the 358 STA better option than Norma and 338-06 could be a nice choice too. I rely on, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. As it stands, it is most certainly on the edge of becoming obsolete. That 225-grain bullet has a sectional density (SD) value of 0.251, a bit light for what is normally considered to be appropriate for dangerous game. Todays Norma factory ammunition is loaded with the companys excellent bonded-core 250-grain Oryx. In a letter written to friend Townsend Whelen during early 1920s, Leslie Simpson-- one of the first Americans to become a professional hunter in Africa--opined that the hunting world needed a .35 caliber cartridge . of energy at the muzzle. The 6.5mm Creedmoor and the old 6.5x55 are sound minimal choices, adequate to 300 yards. The fortunate few who own them want to keep them, and these are the core admirers who make it worth Normas while to continue offering brass and loaded ammunition. Thanks for any thoughts. Follow along to see exactly how. None of this can be said for either the .338 Winchester Magnum or the .375 H&H. People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. [1] Coming from me, this conclusion may shock you, so let me give you another surprise. In an age of ultra-specializatio in every field, and especially rifles, such versatility is almost an anachronism. Mystery of the .358 Winchester - CHUCKHAWKS.COM The .358 Norma Mag. Copyright 2003, 2012 by Chuck Hawks. The cartridge is closely related to the .308 Norma Magnum. These work, but my thinking has changed over the years. It can be the ballistic equivalent of the .30-06 with a 180-grain bullet or, pushed the other way, it can easily match the velocity of the .300 Weatherby Magnum with the same weight bullet. With such a variety of bullets, you would think the skys the limit in terms of different loads, but there are other factors to consider. But in my experience, if you can cover that 300-yard window with confidence youre in good shape. of muzzle energy. .470 Nitro Express. Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. So while some of my rifle choices may have been oddball, none of the rifles Ive used for elk have been exactly wrong. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. I believe it never will. We've got you covered. .450 Nitro Express .17 Hornet 7mm STW 6.8 Western .375 Ruger .223 Remington6.5x55 Swedish .416 Remington Magnum .300 Winchester Short Magnum 28 Nosler 6.5 PRC .22 WMR .458 Winchester Magnum .204 Ruger .22 Hornet .280 Ackley Improved .240 Weatherby Magnum .458 Lott.264 Winchester Magnum.348 Winchester.33 Nosler.260 Remington.30-30 Winchester.416 Rigby.358 Norma Magnum.22 LR7mm-08 Remington8mm Remington Magnum.338 Federal.224 Valkyrie.338-06 A-Square9.3x62mm Mauser.257 Weatherby Magnum.45-70 Government.300 H&H Magnum.25-06 Remington.30-06 Springfield6.5 Creedmoor.300 Remington Ultra Magnum7mm Remington Magnum.470 Nitro Express.280 Remington.300 Winchester Magnum.270 Winchester.222 Remington.45 ACP.404 Jeffery.44 Remington Magnum.41 Remington Magnum.243 Winchester.338 Winchester Magnum.357 S&W Magnum6.5-284 Norma8x57 Mauser.38 Smith & Wesson Special7x57mm Mauser9mm Luger.35 Whelen.454 Casull.375 H&H Magnum.45 Colt.22-250 Remington10mm Auto.308 Winchester. The big case certainly made its reputation with the 250-grain bullets, as their sectional density gives excellent penetration on even the heavy-boned animals, and the .358 Norma can push them to a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps. On those gray, moody November days when I am feeling blue I take my Remington Model 141 pump-action rifle in .35 Rem. Unlike either the .338 or .375, the .35 (.358-inch) has been a standard American caliber since 1900. Kevin Steele of Petersen's HUNTING is with Dawn Wehunt of Rock River Arms INC. learning about the new Ascendant platform. The full spectrum of our many 7mms, from 7mm-08 and 7x57 on up to the fastest 7mm magnums, are also fine, but they are not magical giant-slayers. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. The .300 Rem. [quote=encorerbHmmm, makes me wonder. Here the elk offers hunters an advantage because the vital zone, like body size, is at least twice that of any deer. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. The .35 Win., .35 Newton and .350 Griffin & Howe Mag. Any desire to hunt African dangerous game with your medium bore? Most were intended for .38-caliber handguns, but any bullet made for either the .38 Special or .357 Magnum can be loaded and shot in the .358 Norma Magnum with varying degrees of success. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. Petersen's HUNTING Publisher, Kevin Steele is in the CZ booth with Dylan Rice at SHOT Show to talk about CZ 600 Series Trail rifle. I am convinced there are better tools, and theres also that matter of mindset. Ive obviously left the door wide open. Sure, you can get away with it, especially with todays extra-heavy bullets, but I think its foolish. would follow that tradition. Frankly, I would not want to be without them. Mag. On the other hand, you must hit it well, because if poorly hit, an elk shows strength and stamina and may cover many miles of tough country. Powders such as IMRs Trail Boss, Accurates 5744 and IMRs discontinued SR-4759 all work with lighter bullets, and sometimes accuracy is very good, even if the gas seal is not. In addition, for stopping the big predators of the world, it's hard to beat a suitable .35 caliber rifle. It is, as you say, a thumper. This is basically a deer and black bear (CXP2 class game) cartridge, although it is reputed to be superior to cartridges in the .30-30 class for game weighing over about 400 pounds. It will kill farther than that, of course, but that is its optimum range. That being said, with much wider availability, and the higher . The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. This means that the momentum of a rifle's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. So are the .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. I have one, and I like it a lot. In the entry on the .358 Norma, it maintains that, had Norma convinced a major American riflemaker to offer the chambering in the early years, it could have become one of the greats. Cartridges of .25 caliber and below are not ideal elk cartridges, especially if a big bull is a potential. Elk hunting can be extremely physicalnot only steep country, but also altitude and sometimes deep snow to buck. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. In more recent times, the 1994 release of the .450 Rigby gave dangerous game hunters a bit more bullet weight than the .416 Rigby and has developed a small but devout following among both professional hunters and their clients alike. These were, primarily, the Schultz & Larsen (Denmark), the Husqvarna (Sweden) and a few Browning High Powers made by FN in Belgium. Out of stock View Details . To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. As it was released in the first century of the 20th century, when the common boundaries of cartridge usage were being defined, the .350 Rigby Magnum was considered an all-around cartridge, especially in the more open terrain of British and German East Africa, known today as Kenya and Tanzania. was included in that party is a mystery, as it had no Winchester counterpart. Kynoch was a big producer of .350 ammo, but that has ceased in the recent past. I have no experience with the Norma mag. Since then, I have often recommended medium bores, such as Elmer Keiths favorite .33s, and Ive used the 8mm Remington Magnum a lot. That is quite a few cartridges considering that there is not a single best selling rifle cartridge in the bunch. pushes a 200-grain bullet to just more than 2000 f.p.s. I'm looking for a simpler project on this one. Most Professional Hunters agree that a bullet with a S.D. A cross-section of loads for the .358 Norma Magnum include the (1) Sierra 125-grain JHP, (2) Sierra 170 FMJ, (3) Speer 180, (4) 200-grain cast bullet and a (5) Sierra 200 roundnose. The .350 Magnum has a case length of 2.742 inches, and an overall cartridge length 3.44 inches, so it will feel at home in a magnum-length receiver. The numerous magnum .30s are also excellent, but they deliver more recoil. Back in the late 70's I picked up a custom 1903 in 358 Norma Mag, awesome rifle, very accurate and it put a thump on deer, I bought it hopping to get a moose tag back in MN, never did and sold the rifle. Likewise, so do experienced western elk hunters. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. Theres also a mindset difference. Whelen's Northwoods Trails 35 caliber site - 35 Whelen, 358 Winchester It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. I'd go with the 35 whelen. Any listing you find for H-4895 can be modified by loading only 60 percent of the published minimum to create some very comfortable loads. Your rifle is your most important hunting tool, and knowing how to properly clean and store it when hunting season comes to a close is critical in keeping it in tip-top shape. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Perhaps thats why it has survived. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. In the 80s, when Jack Carter was making his Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullet by hand, I did some elk hunting with the 240-grain .375 version. Re: 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Not so the .358 Norma. However, the optimum game range of the .358 (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2300 fps) is 240 yards. They truly were ahead of their time, as they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool. The .35 Whelen has a relatively simple design: it's a .30-06 Springfield case necked up to use .358 instead of .308 bullets (the exact opposite of the .270 Winchester in other words). Quite a difference! The big issue with the .350 Rigby Magnum is the lack of available ammunition. This list gives some idea of the .358 Normas status today: Those rifles rarely seem to come on the market. The .35 Rem. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. In cartridges, as in boxing, what goes on behind the scenes often determines the outcome. Twenty years ago, I might have said .338 Winchester Magnum was the perfect choice for elk. Mag. 358 norma mag is a rarer bird but as I understand fire forming 300 win mag. The major problem with light loads is getting enough pressure to provide a good gas seal. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. But they are not essential, and despite their effectiveness, all magnums from .30 caliber upwards generate more recoil than many folks are comfortable withand are able to shoot well. This load uses a 200 grain Flex-Tip spitzer bullet and delivers a MV of 2225 fps and ME of 2198 ft. lbs. and .358 Norma Mag.). THe 35 whelen did have a little more power than the 358. to achieve its potential. The 250-grain .358-inch bulletwith a sectional density of 0.279if properly constructed, has enough length to handle the brown bear and bison, and all of the African plains game species, plus lion and leopard. The trouble is, they didnt sell. In Johanssons case, disdain for serious training left him vulnerable when the superbly conditioned Patterson came back a year later, gave him a dazzling boxing lesson and reclaimed the title. My vote is for the .35 Whelen. If the .35 Rem. Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. Norma loads their 250-grain Oryx bullet to this velocity, and as the rear portion of the bullet is bonded, it will give an excellent blend of expansion and penetration. Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. Why cant we love the .35? Griffin & Howe developed the semiwildcat .350 G&H based on the .375 H&H case, as well as pioneering the .35 Whelen. Nils Kvaleone of the chief designers at Normahad experimented with a shortened .300 H&H case, necked to hold 8mm bullets, with the rim turned down to match the 8x57 rim diameter. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. is on the threatened list, this one is on a path to extinction. Sure, we experiment a bit with other bore sizes, but in the end it always comes back to the .30 caliber. Even so, most experienced deer hunters have pretty good ideas on appropriate rifles. from my E.R. As well, most bullet manufacturers produce soft, 200-grain roundnosed bullets intended for the .35 Remington, and these fit a wide range of uses. Also as I have a lot of 357 pistol bullets I was figuring on being able to use them as reduced loads/smaller game options in either big 35 cal should I go that route. For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. It shoots well and is light and easy to carry while hunting. The .35 Whelen is accurate, hits hard, penetrates deep, shoots flat and recoils mildly. Would be nice to have a 35 Wheelie, 350 Rem and a .358 Win. With such a wide range of both cast and jacketed bullets available, and todays variety in powders, the .358 Norma has an embarrassment of riches when it comes to load possibilities. Meanwhile, the .358 Norma fizzled, for lack of a better term, because rifles were not readily available, ammunition was expensive and hard to get, and it found itself in direct competition with one of the great American cartridges of the twentieth century, Winchesters .338 Magnum. Can't really imagine one cartridge doing anything the other couldn't, though the availability of bigger bullets and way more factory ammo (if wanted) are definite pluses for the Mauser. Like most of the children of the Holland & Holland parents, the .358 Norma uses its shoulder for headspacing, rather than the belt, as do the .375 and .300 H&H. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. The 25-degree, 30-minute shoulder gives plenty of room for powder, and though the neck of the .358 Norma measures less than the desired one-caliberit comes in at 0.328-inchthere is plenty of neck tension to hold the bullets in place without the need for crimping. A 358Norma is a good fit for this action. Clearly, for the hunter seeking heavy game and willing to accept this level of recoil, the .358 Norma Magnum deserves far more popularity than it has received. For the one perfect all-around elk rifle, Im not sure you can beat the good old .30-06. was introduced in 1955. An elk is bigger than anything most deer hunters have encountered, but theres still a variance; a cow for the freezer isnt much bigger than a very large deer, but a mature bull elk is different. Spl. The .358 in a bolt-action rifle with a good scope is as accurate as any hunting cartridge available. .35 Whelen - Wikipedia Synthetic wins over laminate because laminates, strongest of all, are also heaviest. Of them all the one I still have is the 9,3X62. I believe in quality optics, but quality and magnification are not synonymous. For example, take the most powerful of the factory standardized .35's, the .358 Norma Magnum. Does the power of the magnum offer much over the whelen in real life terms? Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. You bet they worked! He never questioned the adequacy of his .270 for elk, nor do I, but he was also a lifelong .30-06 fan and privately conceded its superiority for elk-sized game. In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. The .338-inch fans cite the advantage of the higher sectional density figures, while the .358-inch camp favors the better frontal diameter of the larger bore. The .318 Westley Richards was a highly popular choice at that time, and it drives a 250-grain bullet of .330-inch diameter, with a SD of 0.328, and the .375 Holland & Holland uses a 300-grain bullet of nominal diameter with a SD of 0.305; both are renowned for their penetration. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. 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